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Peloton supports Black Lives Matter movement and makes a donation to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund.
Peloton canceled live classes on June 2 in support of “Blackout Tuesday.”
Robin Arzon has tips on how to be an ally.
Tunde hosted a special “Speak Out” ride. Chelsea Jackson Roberts hosted a special meditation.
The OPP has been set to moderated posts only.
Alex Toussaint had a heartfelt IGTV post.
A look back at the ESPN All-Star ride.
Bloomberg.com talks about Peloton’s impressive stock performance.
All this plus our interview with Joanie Young!
InvesterObserver.com has their reasons why the stock is doing so well.
The Atlantic writes about how fitness might work in the future.
Peloton customer service has been having some struggles.
Peloton is on Apple TV.
CBS Sunday Morning talks about the success of Peloton.
Matty Maggiacomo is featured on Rhode Island television.
The Quest Badge is complete.
There’s a flash challenge on the Tread.
The new Pride collection is here.
Tunde hosted a classic rock ride in November that had a Monkees song. (Tome still won’t take it.)
Our Best Fiends battle continues.
Listen to the podcast here:
Peloton’s #BlackLivesMatter Statement plus our interview with Joanie Young
Other than complete and total anarchy, how was your week?
What a week, guys.
I’m reminded of that old joke, “Other than that, this is Lincoln. How was the play?” Let’s just get straight to it.
Let’s just get into it. Let’s focus on the issues. This is a big thing.
We will bypass the shameless plugs and get straight to the stuff. Here we go.
It’s been a crazy week for the African-American community.
I would say for the whole world, but them especially absolutely.
You can be an ally, but at the end of the day, you’re still bystander, in a way that they are not right.
We can’t possibly know.
This is a Peloton podcast, so it might sound a little weird to be like, “Let’s talk about Peloton at a time like this,” but that’s our sole reason for existence. Peloton has entered the fray on this issue, which is pretty brave. A lot of corporations try to co-op movements. They try to co-op them without actually taking a stand. That’s always icky. From my vantage point as a white guy, because everyone’s like, “What does a middle-aged white guy think about it?” They put it on front street. They were like, “Black Lives Matter.” They didn’t try and be like, “We’re going to donate, we’re going to do something. We’re going to have a moment of silence,” and not say what the silence was about. They said, “This has reached critical mass and Black Lives Matter. Like it or lump it.”
Personally, I support Peloton fully. Not just because I love Peloton, but because I sincerely believe that all people do matter and should have a voice. I’m going to be very vulnerable here. As a white person, I don’t feel like I ever really got it. I’m saying that. That’s hard for me to admit, but I didn’t. Watching that video of George Floyd, something just clicked in my brain in a way that it never has before how lopsided the system is. I never really thought about it that I didn’t have to worry about certain things. I am ashamed that I didn’t realize that. I feel embarrassed to say that out loud. That is really hard for me, but I’m here now. I will do better. I’m not just going to say I’m going to do better. I am going to do better. I am educating myself. I am reading how to be an anti-racist, which was a suggestion by Robin. I donated, we donated to the NAACP Legal Defense fund. We didn’t just make a donation. We signed up for a monthly donation, ongoing. I talked to my HR department about doing something for our colleagues. I don’t know that anything will happen with that but I asked.
You at least started the conversation. If enough people start that conversation, they will start to feel the pressure. Those are very small steps.
It’s so small. I don’t mean like everything’s better.
It’s always difficult to talk about this, which I think is a lot of times why people don’t talk about it, and maybe some people will lambast us and that’s fine. I get it.
I don’t want to be preached to.
You do what you can and even if you’re late to the party, at least you showed up. That’s also the situation of like, “I understand when people are frustrated when somebody finally gets it,” but also if you want, you can’t tell people, “Listen to what I’m saying,” and they get mad when they do. I also understand the frustration from people when they’re like, “Where have you been?” It’s funny because behind the scenes, you and I sometimes get into it. I’ve been a little bit more sympathetic to this over the years but I will also say, I don’t want to sound like I’m some paragon of justice. I’m probably only about 18 months, 2 years ahead of the curve than you are. It wasn’t that long ago that I was like, “Just do what the cops tell you.” Now you see that’s not good enough a lot of times, a whole lot of times.
Honestly with my mouth and the things that I say, if I were a black person, I probably would have gotten in a lot of trouble a long time ago.
That’s where we’re at on everything and maybe people don’t care. If you don’t, we apologize if it looks like we’re trying to make it about us. Let’s shift gears and talk about what Peloton has done and how this relates to Peloton. As I said, that’s why the show exists, we look at things through, even though it might seem trivial at the moment.
Peloton donated $500,000 to the NAACP Legal Defense fund. They also sent out a very strongly-worded email. I thought it was strongly-worded that said, “We haven’t done enough. We need to do better.” To Tom’s point, I was not trying to make that about me. I was trying to say, “We’re doing better.”
We’re trying to take small steps.
This action that Peloton took was mentioned in several news articles, including the Wall Street Journal. Peloton also canceled all live classes on June 2nd for Blackout Tuesday. They wanted to take a moment to reflect, and out of courtesy of their coworkers and colleagues and employees who were hurting and in pain. Give them a moment to take that in. There was opposed by Robin Arzon that stood out to me. It was talking about how it’s time to get uncomfortable in the service of black liberation. She talked about educating yourself by listening to people of color. Sshe recommended the book, How to Be an Antiracist, which is why I’m reading it. She did good because that’s at least one person that listened.
I think that book has been selling like crazy lately. I’ve seen lots and lots of tweets from people suggesting that as one of the books to read.
White Fragility is another one that is on my list to read that I’ve heard a lot about. Robin also suggested following some people who educate about the people of color point of view, anti-racism, Rachel Cargle, @PrivToProg and @MoeMotivate. They’re all educators. She pointed out, “If you’re tired of seeing posts about racial injustice and George Floyd, imagine how it must feel to be disenfranchised and disempowered because of it. I don’t know have answers or authority on this, but I know how to listen and get to work.” That spoke to me. I wanted to read that for people who might have missed it. Peloton had two special classes. Tunde had a ride at 5:00 PM and it was called Speak Out. Then there was a meditation with Chelsea Jackson Roberts right after. If you haven’t taken the ride, you should. It was a ride like no other that I’ve ever done. Tunde took the opportunity to read several quotes from several instructors about how they’re feeling during this time, things that they’re going through, reading their points of view. She also spoke up and talked about very powerful quotes that had spoken to her about racism. It was a very powerful class. I think that everyone should take it. It was very different. Don’t go into it with expectations that it’s going to be a party because that’s not what this was, nor should it be time for a party. That happened.
Let me tackle this part. Crystal puts together the topics. I put together the run of show in terms of what order we talk about things and how we lump things. She had this next topic just as a topic, then I lumped it under this, which is the OPP has been set to moderated posts and that you have to be approved before your post goes live. I moved it up to this section because I feel like they were already having a lot of people getting pretty douchey on the OPP. Historically you’re like, “That’s a newsflash, Tom.” As this was ramping up, the OPP was getting not just ugly but racist. Without saying why, they set the OPP to moderate a post only. I think in retrospect it was because of this and probably because they knew they were getting ready to make a pretty aggressive statement on behalf of the Black Lives Matter movement. They just didn’t want to deal with D-bags. I don’t blame them at all. Who knows, hopefully we don’t have to take a similar tact after this. If we do, we do, whatever. There’s a time to be polite. Sometimes being silent in the service of politeness is only aiding the wrong side of the equation.
If this week has taught me anything, it’s that my silence has helped to perpetrate this. If that means that people don’t want to listen, then I get it. You’re entitled to your opinion, but don’t get me wrong, not every episode is going to be talking about this. This happened and we can’t pretend that it didn’t. I can’t sit here and pretend that I am not horrified by it. Anyway, I agree with you that’s what happened and that’s why the OPP was changed. On that, there’s another thing that I want to highlight, and that is Alex’s post on Instagram. This whole day has just been crazy for other reasons besides everything else going on. I want you to read what Alex has to say on Instagram because it was raw and emotional and it was real. I think we all need to hear it. Please do.
“I’ve been searching for the right words to come up here and speak with you all. There are no right words to describe how I’m feeling right now. I’m going to have a real raw, emotional human moment with you. I’m scared. I’m tired. I’m hurt. I’m angry. Enough is enough. I need you to wake the hell up. I really need you to wake the hell up. This crap is real out here. My people are dying. Black individuals like myself, young black men, kings and queens are not making at home. They’re getting killed in broad daylight on camera. This has got to stop. I’m also feeling and dealing with this emotional level of guilt because I’ve been so blessed to be accepted by this Peloton community for the last four and a half years. You accepted me with open arms, respect, love and trust. You allowed me in your homes. Your kids love me. I love your kids. We have dialogue with each other, but you don’t give that same energy love to my community. I’m living in this emotional guilt of like you all give me love, and I feel like my entire community got its bad turned on them. For some, you all think this racism crap isn’t even real. If I’m in your home, if you rock it with me, racism is real. It’s really your life. I’m in your life. I’ve got to deal with this crap too. I’m not exempt for this because I work at Peloton. I’ve got cameras in my face what you all show love.
I get reminded every time I get a haircut in Brooklyn, I’m going to get pulled over, and the cop pulls my ass out my car. It sets me on the curb. That’s a 50/50 chance I’m playing with my life right there. That’s a 50/50 chance I wake up to go teach the next morning. That’s a 50/50 chance I got to text my mom, “Good night.” That is scary. I looked back at my recent text messages with my mom. It was nothing but just confirmation that I’m alive, “Alex, are you good? Alex, call me. Checking in, are you good?” My mom is at a point now where if she doesn’t hear from me for a couple of hours, she goes to my social media to check my story. She goes like, “Alex, as long as I see a story, I know you’re breathing.” That should not be like that. I’m a grown ass man. I text my mom every single night to make sure to let her know I’m alive.
This is scary. I need you to wake up. I need you to ultimately do better. I need you to teach your families, teach the people in your communities, surround yourself with individuals who do not look like you. The only way to learn is to surround yourself with individuals who do not look like you to grow. Stop repeating the same thing. It’s time to evolve. I’m tired of this. I’m not trying to wake up tomorrow and see one of my brother’s name into a hashtag, “It wasn’t Ally Love.” My life is not a trend. Our lives are not trends. My life is more than a hashtag. How would you feel if you woke up and instead of taking a class, you turn my name into a hashtag? For some of you, the reality is not going to set it unless I explain it to you like that. Therefore, I need to put this on you all. I do not mean this out of love, out of respect, but I’ve got to keep it real with you. I don’t think I’ve been doing a good enough job of keeping it real with you all.
My people need to be protected. My kings and queens need to be protected. This crap is unreal. I pray that for the people reading this and following, this message hits you. If you don’t follow me, I hope this message still hits you. If you’re one of those people who are like, “I’m not paying attention to this or whatever,” I pray for you because I can’t fight hate with hate. My mother and father raised me better than that. I can’t move like that. I’m going to fight this with love no matter what until the end of the day I die. Please wake the hell up. Please teach your kids better. I’m not going to sit up here and give you a history lesson because to be honest with you, I’m too damn tired. I’m not equipped for that right now. What I’m going to do is point you in the right direction. Major shout to my colleagues, my brothers and sisters, Chase Tucker and Ally Love. They’re taking time out of the day to provide you with information, resources, tools and the knowledge. If you’re blind to this crap, I want you to go to their page right now. Check what they’re posting. I don’t have the energy to post that because honestly, I’m fed up and I’m scared. I’m trying to make it another 24 hours. Sometimes the highlight of my week and the milestones of my week is waking up and ultimately making my home safe. Those are my two biggest milestones sometimes. That’s not right. If you’re watching this, please wake up and do better.”
Back to more regular news, what would have been the lead story on a regular week. The ESPN All-Star ride happened.
It was interesting to watch on ESPN. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. I hate watching sports. I don’t hate sports that they exist. Don’t misunderstand. I don’t like watching sports on TV. I get very bored and there’s something about announcer voice, as soon as I hear it, I’m just like, “Get me out of here.” I can watch a game live and enjoy myself, but watching it on TV, not so much. ESPN is not really my jam.
We had to google what the channel number was. We had no idea where it was at in our cable provider.
It does not surprise any of you. Once we found it though, I was surprised. I enjoyed seeing people’s outputs and what cadence they were doing and what resistance they were doing. I thought they did it pretty well. I thought it was interesting that the people riding could hear the announcers’ voices. I thought that was interesting.
That’s weird because if you’re a football player, you can’t hear the announcers.
There were only eight of them at a time. Also, twenty minutes flies by when there are commercials, it felt like five.
You’re not the one peddling.You don’t have to be concerned about the leaderboard, but it’s still good to see your statistics. Click To Tweet
That is true. Also, I don’t want to make this all about calibration, because that is a whole other episode for a whole other time. I am not in a good place to do that right now.
I think this episode is already controversial enough.
I have to say that I thought it was interesting that the winners had output way above the rest. When they put the rides up on demand, how those outputs were squashed in ten seconds. Don’t worry about your bike. That’s my end game here. Do you and worry about beating your own output and don’t stress about the leaderboard. If people can beat Olympic athletes, there’s something wrong. It’s just not right.
I will also say that I think as an end user, don’t get worried about calibration, but I do think if they want to continue this as programming, they need to find some way to make sure that it’s an apples to apples comparison.
I was super curious about that like, “Did they?” Given that it’s COVID, I’m thinking they didn’t.
They’re not going to send somebody over to calibrate a bike. That defeats the whole purpose of the self-quarantine.
I didn’t know since they had to put special stuff in place for programming at home and the lighting and stuff, if they had sent somebody over to help with that or assist, like even from the window. I don’t know. I have no answers on this. It’s just my imagination, wondering things.
Somehow they’ve got a camera in there, so maybe that guy could do the Bike too but I don’t know.
No clue. If you were wondering and somehow you missed it, Colleen Quigley won the women’s race on ESPN. She beat the second person by over 100 watts, and her total was 346 KJs for twenty minutes. Matt Grevers, who’s a swimmer, crushed the men’s race with 417 watts. Incidentally, Colleen Quigley came in fifth on the overall leaderboard. It was like four men and then Colleen Quigley. To put her numbers in place with the men’s, I’m glad they split that because it is very different. I thought it was interesting and new, I like it and it was fun to see something different.
It will be interesting to see if they do this moving forward. Have we had any indication about ratings? Did people watch?
Just judging by the Peloton community, people loved it but I have no idea in the real world.
My guess is that it probably also brought in a lot of people that maybe don’t normally pay a lot of attention to ESPN.
I think that both happened. I think people who watch ESPN were surprised that this Peloton thing was on. Maybe it might have changed their opinion about what was happening. I also think there were a whole lot of people like myself watching ESPN for maybe the first time in twenty years.
It’s funny when you see some of the people that are like, “How is this on ESPN?” I’m like, “ESPN legit chose people playing cards.” There are not a lot of sports for them to cover. They show Poker when everybody’s healthy.
Let’s not pretend you’re above Peloton.
There was a time when you would have never thought that people would just be playing cards. At that point, if you’re going to show Poker on ESPN, they just need to just flat out show D&D.
Even some of the video game sports.
eSports are huge.
ESPN is showing those as well.
Bloomberg had an interesting article about the future of gyms and the strong performance of the Peloton stock as of late.
It’s been on a run this week. It’s been a down a little bit. We’re at 47.83 at the close on June 3rd. It was up to a high of 49 and some change earlier this week. The theory that Bloomberg has is that there was a report that came out about fitness trends saying that people are not going to be returning to the gym.
They based that on what we’ve been saying? Were we quoted in there?
No, we were not quoted. To be fair, they based it on real data. What they did is they went to the states where the gyms have already opened up. They were checking to see how many people have come back. It turns out not so much.
Especially like we were saying, if you’ve already bought one, why would you go back? It’s not like you can return it to the store.
That is their take. Before that, there had been an article in the Investors Observer. They had said that they felt like Peloton’s performance overall is changing Wall Street to change their view on Peloton. There’s a lot more investment houses that are coming out and saying, “This is becoming rated a buy.” In this case, it was rated a strong buy.
What I’m going to predict is driving that is I think some of the people that work in those investment houses bought Pelotons. They tried it and they were like, “Game-changer, I didn’t think about that. Now, I get it.” They’re like, “OGs, let’s just because this is way cooler than I thought.”
I see that you put this all together and I think this makes sense. There was also an article in the Atlantic all about how relationships with the gym have changed forever. I think that they have. I saw the feedback whenever I posted this article. A lot of you said that it’s changed forever. There were some exceptions and there were people that brought up some very good points like YMCA programs and things like that. What’s going to happen to that? I think that’s a very good question. I could see a place for community gyms still existing, especially for kids, especially for water programs.
I feel like a play like the YMCA is probably pretty safe because they offer a lot of other services to the community, as well as meeting places and daycare. My guess if I were a betting man is that you’ll see the 24 Hour Fitnesses of the world really struggle and start to contract, and that the YMCAs will pick up some of that. It will actually probably be okay because they offer a lot of other services. When the other places start going away, they’ll be the only place left.
It makes sense to me.
The Peloton customer service has been having a few snags as of late.
I went ahead and said we should talk about this because I posted a video that came out on NBC in Washington. There were a couple of families locally that were looking for recourse because they had bought a Peloton Bike, and for whatever reason, they stopped working. Peloton was unable to come back and service it or pick it up. These were brand-new bikes, but because of COVID, they could deliver it to their doorstep, but they were unable to come back and pick it up. The reason I wanted to bring this up is because I think there are two things wrapped up here. One, I think that there is an issue with people getting Bikes right now during COVID and something is going on with the pedals. I’m seeing this a lot. I don’t know if they’re not being installed correctly because what’s happening is the installers are putting them together, then setting them on the doorstep and leaving. The owner doesn’t always have a chance to try it out because of course they’re trying to practice social distancing. Or if there’s something going on with the pedal not working. I don’t know. I’m not trying to start concerns that don’t need to be there. I’m saying I’ve seen this enough now in different places and it’s the pedal.
It seems consistently to be the pedal.
I know that you have to thread the pedals backwards. I know very little about mechanics, but I have seen enough of you post about that.
You thread one backward because if not, then you’ll end up unscrewing it as you peddle.
I don’t know if that’s what’s happening. I suspect based on the influx of comments that I’ve seen, that is a good chance.
You would think that an installer would know that if they’re installing them professionally or maybe the delivery service have contracted and people who are delivering the Bikes aren’t the same people that normally do.
XPO could be third-partying it out. We don’t know. Just because Peloton contracts with XPO doesn’t mean anything. That could still be another third party. Here’s where it starts to get a little crazy though, because now Peloton has set up a rule that they never had in place before. Back when I first got the bike, if you had something wrong with your Bike, they would send you the parts and tell you how to fix it. Now, they do that but here’s the thing, it voids your warranty. You make your own repair, it voids your warranty. What people are saying is, “Here are my options. You deliver me a Bike. Now it breaks. You didn’t tell me that this voided my warranty. You then sent me the parts to fix it. Then I tried to fix it in that didn’t work. Now my warranty is voided.” That’s a problem. That’s why this is a customer service thing because it’s unlike Peloton to make a change like this and not communicate it through their customer service. I also noticed that their customer service, the people have been posting it, they don’t seem to be the customer service that I’m used to seeing. This seems to be a different team, maybe they’ve been outsourced as well. I don’t know what’s going on, but it is different than what I’ve seen in the past. I feel like it’s worth saying, not to mention all the people who have Treads that have broken and have broken bases, they can’t get new ones.
I understand their frustration too. I also get that what are you supposed to do?
If they financed it, they have to keep paying their finance. What people are having trouble understanding is that’s through a third party.
If you put it on your credit card because that’s essentially what you did, you just have a Peloton specific credit card that the credit card company is like, “That’s a shame, but you have to keep paying us. We are MasterCard, not Peloton.”
If it were a MasterCard, you could do a charge back and you can’t do that now. I don’t have a solution at all, but I get why people are frustrated.
It’s an unusual situation given what’s going on with Coronavirus. I understand the position that Peloton is in, but I also understand the frustration of the customers. I know I would be.
I had somebody reach out to me after I posted that article. They told me that they’ve been an owner for a long time and they have a Bike and a Treadmill, neither of which is working. They have $6,000 worth of equipment in their basement that doesn’t work. I get it. I would be upset too. For those of you dealing with that, I feel you, I hear you. I hope that it gets resolved. I’ve seen a lot of comments about first world problems, you’re complaining about nothing. I started there on this issue, not going to lie, but I’ve seen it enough at this point, repeated in multiple places from different people. I’m starting to have a little bit of a, “This is starting to feel more systemic than it is isolated.”
There have always been isolated incidents when you’re this big and you’re selling these many to these many people, there are going to be snags. It’s like, “We’re not here to report on every single issue,” but this one seemed like a larger pattern. Peloton is officially on Apple TV. I know you’re very excited. You love your Apple.
Congrats to all Apple people. I don’t really know what this does for you. I get it in theory because it’s an app. You can watch it on your iPad. You can watch it on your TV, whatever Apple TV means that you have the app on your TV. I’m also hearing people say that you can’t put your heart rate on it right now. For anybody who isn’t sure about this, it’s only on-demand classes. I did hear from a little birdie that live classes could be in the works. That’s a rumor. Besides those basics, I don’t know much about it. I know people are super excited about it. It’s a big deal. Congrats. Maybe someday something will happen with the Android app and I can celebrate with you.
Something you can enjoy, Peloton was featured on CBS Sunday Morning.
That was so cool, what a great feature. It was all about things that are happening with COVID and they did a whole feature just on Peloton and how it’s changed the working out. It’s all stuff we already know, but what a great thing for them to be featured on CBS.
It’s fun when there’s something that you like that gets featured in a place like that. When The Monkees had a new record out or when they came back, they were featured on CBS Sunday Morning. It’s not like there was anything in there I didn’t already know, but it was still cool to see them featured so prominently. Matty was featured on a Rhode Island news.
He’s been working out locally in Rhode Island with his parents because he’s been living in his parents’ basement. They featured him like, “You can work out with a Rhode Island native.” It was so cute. He did a great job. I say cute like that like it diminishes it. It was not like that. It was a very good feature on Matty and Peloton, the whole thing. He was also cute in that, “Rhode Island boy makes good.” Congrats to Matty as always, we’re big supporters.
The Quest Badge is complete.
For anybody that was wondering, when you get the fourth one, it just has four circles. It doesn’t come together and make like some cool Voltron thing, maybe next time. It was a neat. I enjoyed this plus badge. It was cool to be told to go take specific classes. There are always so many classes and like, “What do I take?” This was very specific. I knew everyone instantly. I don’t think I was really the target. I think it was people who don’t do all the things all the time that they were trying to target. I did like how each badge added on. If you did week one, you had one circle. If you did week two, you had two circles. Week four had four circles. You get a different badge for each one. If you did all four, then you have all four badges. If you only did week four, you still have week four, so it still has your four circles.
There’s a flash challenge on the Tread.
I can’t remember if I mentioned this when it started, so I wanted to make sure that I did. You have until June 15th to take four classes. They can be HIIT intervals. It has to be HIIT or any Speed class. You can find those by going to the treadmill running and then choosing either Speed or HIIT. And, um, I’ve been enjoying this. I like these flash challenges because it gives me a very specific task, and I enjoy those, plus I’ve been working on my HIIT Strength. That’s a good combo for me.
The Pride collection has come out.
It hit the streets on May 28th. I enjoyed it. They had very few selections, but I would consider that a capsule collection, which they do sometimes. Because of that, it didn’t have a huge variety. It also didn’t have a huge variety of inclusive sizes, which some people were a little bit disappointed. Also we have reached the popularity growth again where everything is selling out in a couple hours. There’s a lot of disappointment about that. I get it, guys. All of you need to follow me and turn on your notifications because as soon as I know it’s up, I’m telling you and I don’t usually miss out.
I’m painfully well-aware of that.
Sorry about that, Tom. This would be no exception. I purchased some things, they arrived today.
Tunde had a classic rock ride that someone brought to our attention because it features the aforementioned The Monkees, the greatest band in the world.
I wanted to make sure that you saw this. I knew that you would see it if I put it in this list. November 11th of ‘19, there was a The Monkee song in the playlist.
Are you going to do the class?
No, of course not, but that’s good that they used Mary Mary, sung by Micky written by Mike. That’s a very early song that was written by one of the actual members. They didn’t get to do that at first, so that’s a big deal.
That was posted in our group. Thank you for sharing that with us. That was a nice little thing to share.
Joining us is Joanie Young.
How are you?
We’re good. How are you?
I’m doing okay as well as anybody can be expected in these crazy times that we’re living in. Thank goodness I have a lot to be grateful for. My family’s healthy, we’re working from home and the kids are good so I feel grateful at this time.
They’re two of my biggest passions.
Tell us first how you found Peloton.
In the spring of 2016, I was a member of a dynamic gym that catered to people who do Spartan Races and other obstacle course races like Tough Mudder. My husband and I were into that scene for about four years from about 2015 to 2019. We only had to give up that lifestyle in 2019 because we both had certain health issues and minor surgeries. It’s nothing major but enough that it interfered with our race and training schedule. We both would go to this gym and they had awesome boot camps. They had Spartan training, a boxing program that relates to FightCamp, but the one thing they did not have was spinning. I have loved spin classes all through my college years, in my twenties. I had gone through them on and off. They weren’t as widely available back in the early 2000s. It’s not like now where there’s a boutique spinning studio on every corner. When I could find one, I definitely would go. I was talking with this couple at the gym and we were saying, “That’s the one thing we miss from our training. We don’t have spin classes.”
The husband said, “Have you heard of this at-home spin called Peloton?” I said, “No,” and he showed me a commercial on his phone and said he and his wife had gotten one and it’s amazing. I was intrigued by it. I went to the Short Hills Mall, which is probably half an hour from my house, tried it out in the Peloton boutique store there and I fell in love with it. It was delivered July of 2016 so you and me, Crystal, have been using it about the same amount of time. At first, it was funny because it took me about a good year to get into Peloton. I would ride it here and there. I do it for my morning cardio, but it took me over a year to get to my first hundred rides. I wasn’t enraptured by the whole Peloton thing away. I don’t know what it was. I hadn’t discovered the Facebook groups yet, the online community, the instructor pages or anything like that so I was going on my own. It took me a while to warm up to it.
You probably didn’t have much direction if you weren’t following along on any of the Facebook groups. I can totally understand that. It’s like, “What do you do next?” There’s so much that it can be overwhelming if you don’t have a direction. How did you find FightCamp?
This also goes back to that gym that I was a member of. A year later, in 2017, in the summer, I was scrolling through my Facebook feed and I saw this ad for an at-home boxing system. It looked intriguing. At the gym that I was attending, they had a good boxing instructor. I took small group instructions, private and one-on-one training sessions from him. I love boxing. I feel it’s so empowering. You feel so strong and it’s a great stress reliever. This instructor decided to move with his fiancé to Florida. They weren’t going to replace him. It was like, “I’m losing my boxing,” and that’s something I enjoyed and felt was good for my endurance, muscle and cardio strength at the same time. It’s like, “What do I do now?”
I happened to see this Facebook ad and it looked like a small startup company. I started to look a little deeper and I read a couple of reviews. The first review said this is the Peloton of the boxing world and that hooked me there. I’m like, “I’m reading more about this. Let me see. What does it entail? How do you do it? How do you have a leaderboard with boxing?” The whole system, their whole way of tracking punches and whatnot intrigued me. I watched a couple of their videos and the instruction looked solid. You could tell the coaches were all experienced. I saw another review comment. Tommy Duquette of FightCamp, I’ve spoken with him several times over the years, does not even know the story. This is a little embarrassing story for him.
The second comment that I saw was a review. I’m paraphrasing here, “Tommy, I’m so proud of you. You have started such a wonderful company. You are following your dreams and I know you can do anything.” It was by a lady named Nancy Duquette and I deduced that that was his mom. It was his mom and that got me in the heartstrings. I was like, “Here’s this young guy and had a good idea to do this interconnected boxing workout,” which wasn’t on the market yet. The moms and dads are always in the back like, “Good for you. Go for it.” It’s much how I am as a parent. I’m a teacher and I try to be very encouraging to my own kids and students. That hooked me so I’m like, “Let me see what this whole thing entails.”
What I hear there is she’s like, “I like to be encouraging and supportive but just in case, I also want to know how to box.”
I teach middle school. Sometimes I need some moves.
It’s good to be prepared. That’s a fabulous story. Did you end up buying it right away?
I didn’t. At this time, it was so early in their company’s history that things weren’t sold as a set the way they are now. Now it’s a whole system. I wasn’t sure what I needed. I knew I didn’t need gloves because I already had gloves from boxing in the gym. I had a small punching bag at home and that was my children’s plaything that they would beat on. I thought, “For the time being, I could use this.” The punching bag came up to about my chin. I had to punch down to even make any connection with this thing. The bag was quickly replaced with a FightCamp bag after I saw that it was not working out. I did purchase the hand wraps. That’s the thing with the hand wraps. You can insert the little punch trackers into them on the back of your wrist, as you know, Crystal, I’m sure. You wrap it up and put your gloves over it. That’s the best part for me because I love that tracking system. I find it motivating.
It’s gratifying to have the numbers go up in front of you so you can see, especially as you’re winding down. You have your goal count and they do that burnout at the end of a lot of the rounds. It pushes you to beat the number.
That’s my whole thing. I need to meet or exceed that punch count number. That’s important to me and it’s funny because I’m not a huge big leaderboard person on Peloton. I’m like, “Whatever.” I check it out to see how many people have ridden or how many of my friends have taken this ride but I’m like, “I don’t give a crap. If I come in last place, I come in last place.” With the punch count on FightCamp, I do like to see that punch count tracker.
That’s less of a leaderboard thing because you’re not competing against somebody else. It’s a goal to set for you and it’s almost like a cadence or resistance that you want to put the number.
It’s like a benchmark. It’s almost like a game because you don’t have to beat it to go to the next level, but your brain sees it as, “I’ve got to beat it to get to the next level,” or at least mine does. Maybe that says something about me.
It’s the same with me.Signing up for races gives you a goal, which will keep you motivated. Click To Tweet
It’s not a benchmark. It’s a punch mark.
They do have the leaderboard but it’s not live like Peloton. You see where you came in at the end of your class. Do you pay attention to that piece of it?
Not really, no. Maybe that’s how it is for me for the Peloton one. I am nosier. I like to see who’s riding, who took this class already and see if they like it or would recommend it but that’s it. My motto is fun and fitness. I love fitness but I don’t put a lot of pressure on myself. I did a lot of that for many years, being in different races and training for different events. I’m 44 now and I want to move for an hour every day. Even more on the weekends if I’m not working because I love to and it’s healthy but other than that I’m good. I don’t need to beat anybody.
I get that because I feel I’ve gone through stages with the Peloton. When I first got the Peloton, I was like, “I’m going to go up this leaderboard and I’m going to write kick some butt,” and I was like, “No, I’m not. I am the bottom of the leaderboard.” It became, “I’m going to get stronger and I’m going to do all these athletic things,” and it’s like, “All I ever do is work out.” It became I had to, instead of I wanted to and it sucked the fun out and now I’m back to, “I want to do all the things for fun,” because I keep doing them. That’s the key to it.
That’s the motivation for me.
If you’re not having fun and you don’t enjoy coming back to it, what’s the point?
Ultimately, the motivating factor is health and living longer.
If it’s this giant ball of stress that’s placed on your shoulders, that feels like another to-do and that’s not fun anymore.
That’s something that has evolved for me over the years. If fitness was starting to become a chore or something else to add to my day, you don’t perform your best then. I took a step back from racing. My husband and I had a few minor surgeries. I had three dental surgeries and he had one on his thumb, one in his elbow, one on his eye. It caused us to take a little bit of a breather from that lifestyle.
I have to ask because of the two surgeries, you weren’t biting him were you?
It was only on my teeth.
She had dental surgery and he had all these other things. I was like, “I think she’s biting him. Is he okay?” That’s all.
That was a tough time. One of my teeth has extensive issues. It broke off at work and I had to teach the rest of the day and trying to keep blood from not coming out of my mouth. I ran to my oral surgeon right after work. I was like, “Please help me.” Stuff happens as you get older. My husband had several injuries as a young guy in his college years and twenties that never quite healed right. At the age of 44 and 45, arthritis was starting to set in. You’ll have some things scraped out, a little scar tissue scraped out here and there and again. Thank goodness they were not major things, but it was enough to have us take a little breather. I do have to say, the running, the obstacle course community, I was also into triathlons for many years, they are awesome communities. They’re like Peloton and FightCamp too. It’s neat the way you make friends everywhere you go, which is awesome.
I have not done anything with the obstacle course community but the triathlete community has always been, and when I say always, it’s in 2019 when I’ve dabbled in it, supportive locally. I get the impression it’s like those little pockets everywhere. It’s not a giant nationwide community in the same way that Peloton is. I’m curious about your take on obstacle course races versus triathlons because I’ve always been interested in doing the obstacle courses, but they seem more intense than a triathlon. A triathlon seems more about you competing against you and those obstacle courses seemed more like whoever gets to the beginning first. It seems more of an intense competition.
I feel like they’re apples and oranges. Both are intense but in their own ways. This is my opinion and someone else who does both might have a totally different take on it. The sport of triathlon is more about endurance. It’s about how long and how fast you can go. Obstacle course racing is more about strength during the obstacles and endurance because most of them are held on mountains. With Spartan races, that’s the case anyway. You’re going up and down that mountain, so it’s not flat terrain in between each obstacle where you could run to the next thing. You’re climbing and hiking. The elite athletes run it. They’re so fast but most other regular people hike or jog in between the obstacles. You stop and do the obstacle.
What obstacles are there?
There are a lot of things. One is called the Atlas Carry where you carry this big cement ball across a field, put it down, do five burpees, pick it up and bring it back to the starting point. That’s one obstacle.
You do this willingly?
Yes. My husband and friends always say, “Why do we pay to do this?” It seems like a good idea at the time when we were signing up and now it’s like, “Oh, man.” At the end, it’s such a sense of accomplishment and it’s a lot of fun. I don’t mind getting dirty. I love that. I’m not a vain person. I’m not self-conscious because some of it is through the mud. Hence, the name Tough Mudder. They have a lot of push and pull obstacles. There’s one in Spartan called the Hercules Hoist where you pull a rope that’s attached to a sandbag of varying weights. They’ve got one weight for men and for women, but you could do with whichever one you want. You have to pull it up to a certain pole where it hits a point and slowly release it to the ground. They have ones like monkey bars. You’re climbing monkey bars type of thing across 15 or 20 rungs. The monkey bar ones are tough for me. I either receive assistance from my husband, if it’s allowed. Some races allow it and some don’t or you have a penalty. If you can’t complete an obstacle, you can opt to do 30 burpees as your penalty. Usually, I end up taking the burpees on the ones that are harder for me.
That’s a tough choice because I hate burpees.
It’s a lot of fun and the community’s great. They’re personable and supportive no matter what level of athlete you are. I’m not a strong athlete. I like to do stuff and it takes me a long time to complete these races but that’s part of the fun of it.
I bet you that you’re probably a better athlete than you think. It’s because of the nature of the activities that you’re involved in. You’re surrounded by people who are probably good at it, so you feel in juxtaposition to those people like you’re not that good at it. If you compared yourself to regular old people, you’d find that you’re probably a lot better at it than you think.
In other words, you’d kick our butts, especially Tom’s.
I don’t think so. Crystal, you’re strong on the Bike. We follow each other.
We do but I’m still going to go with you’re probably stronger and faster than I am. I’m a little bit of a turtle in all these areas.
So am I. I even have a little turtle tattoo because I’m so slow in my running races, but that’s okay. I like to do it. People always ask me, “Do you check your stats after the race?” I do check my overall time because I like to try to improve on my time from months or the year before. After that, I don’t care. I’m probably last in my age group. Sometimes people who are in the communities that I’m in feel incredulous at that. They can’t believe that I’m not tracking every statistic, minute, transition and race. I find signing up for races motivates me because it gives me a goal and it helps with my training because I know, “I have to be prepared for this. I can’t skip my FightCamp workout and cardio on my Peloton. I have to build that endurance.” That’s been helpful over the years.
You have a great attitude about it because I love races. I love that sense of accomplishment. I also put way too much pressure on myself and freak out. Tom can’t stand it when I sign up for races because I’m a mess.
I hear and understand that too. I’ve been there at times myself and I’m like, “Why am I doing this to myself? This is supposed to be for fun, fitness and health.” I spent 2019, once we had another minor surgery saying, “I’m done with it.” Not that I’m done with races forever, but I’m done with putting that pressure on myself. I love working out as you do, Crystal.
It’s funny because we’re both competitive, but she approaches it differently because she’s going to try and tackle it and figure it out. I’m like, “I don’t like to lose, therefore I’m not going to do that.”
He competes and thinks he’s good at it like trivia contests. He’s good at them and does well with that and I’m like, “I’ll be the person that writes down the answers.”
Which works out well, because with my handwriting it wouldn’t matter if I knew the answer. No one would be able to read it and I’d still get it wrong.
I have a funny little tidbit that Tom might appreciate. In 2019, my husband and I were going to homecoming for Peloton. I was trying to describe to my colleagues at work what this whole thing was and what this weekend in New York City was all about and what we were doing. One of my teacher friends who we’ve taught together for years and he’s into comic books. I said, “It’s like Comic-Con but for Peloton.” His question to me is, “Are you going to dress up as the bike?”
People love to get the outfits that the instructors are wearing so it does have that element.
We all go to the boutique and buy all the things the instructors are wearing so we are still doing that. We can all get dressed up for the big party.
That’s what I told him and explained that in 2019 we had musical guests like Beck. It was cool and my colleagues will still send me memes of people in bike costumes all the time rolling down the street.
Given that you have all this stuff at home now, how are you combining your workouts? What does a typical week look like?
I do have to say that the Spartan obstacle course racing gym that I went to for about four years, unfortunately, closed. As of them closing, the only things I had at home were the Peloton Bike and the FightCamp. The owner sold it to a different person and this person did a different direction of a gym, which is good for them. That’s awesome but it was also a little far from my house. I thought if it’s not something that I’m going to be interested in and using every day or almost every day, why continue my membership there? It was tough but in 2018, they switched owners and they changed. I was like, “Do I go to a new gym?” More cross places and gyms were popping up around me and I thought, “Let me see what I can do with the Peloton at home.”
I was also getting the Tread. I got the Tread, I believe it was January of 2019. My husband’s like, “Where’s this giant machine going to go in our house?” We fit it. We have a basement finished family room that when my children were little, it used to house their big toys like the play kitchen, the art easel, the art table and stuff and now they don’t need that crap anymore. I’m like, “Let’s move this out. My Tread is going in here.” I put my drive there and I made more of a home gym. I have the FightCamp bag there, some free weights that I do when I do boot camps, a big TV that I can cast on to and a mirror so I could check my form. My Peloton Bike is upstairs in my room because I need to be able to roll out of bed and hop on in the morning. It serves me better as a place in my house.
I didn’t join another gym. I made a home gym. What I do is, I make sure that I have three days a week, sometimes four of strength training. I feel that’s something, especially for women of a certain age, that we need to keep our bones strong. My mom suffers terribly from osteoporosis. We’re alike in our looks, demeanor, stature and everything. I don’t want to have that situation. She’s unfortunately fallen many times and broken many bones. She’s doing fine. She’s healed and everything, but it’s been tough on her and I know part of that is because she has osteoporosis as many women do. The one thing that I insist on is the strength training and that can be from Peloton strength, boot camps and free weights.
I have some streaming videos that I like to use and the rest is whatever I feel in the mood for that day. I like to move between 30 and 60 minutes so even if I’m tired, I can always convince myself, “30 or 20 minutes is not going to be the end of the world. You can get through this.” That might be a ride or run. FightCamp is great for cardio. That’s how I do it. I feel whatever I feel like doing that day. There’s been a few programs that I have used with FightCamp because they have three available now. I’m on the third one, which is the kickboxing program which I’m loving. It’s so awesome.
I’m excited to try that. I’ve committed to finishing the Prospect Path before I do the kickboxing one but I want to try it.
All because Lloyd Dobbler says it’s the sport of the future.
He was doing social distancing by holding that radio outside for years now.
She was doing the social distancing.
“Kickboxing sport in the future.” That’s a great line.
Maybe you’ve heard of it? Some of the superstars include Don “The Dragon” Wilson.
Do you have preferred instructors in one or both of these different platforms?
For FightCamp, my favorite is Tommy, the Founder. My other favorites are Shanie Smash and Flo Master. Out of the three of them and all the instructors, I find Shanie to be the hardest. She’s a tough lady.
She likes those planks, doesn’t she?
She does. The punching planks are like, “Holy cow.” She kicks my butt so hard. I was watching it because the instructors have bio videos on the FightCamp app. You can get to know a little bit about them. Flo Master has a great story about growing up being bullied, becoming a breakdancer to ward off the bullies as a young teenager and follow dance, came to Cali, and became interested in boxing. They all have great stories.
That’s an interesting journey because normally the path isn’t like, “I’m getting bullied. I think I’ll dance and that will stop them.” He widely misinterpreted the lesson of the West Side Story.
She said breakdancing. He took his athleticism and made dance work with athleticism.
I don’t disagree but all dance is super athletic.
I know but breakdancing has that cool factor to it.
It’s funny/a little sad. Not like there’s anything wrong with breakdancing but that it has to be breakdancing to be seen as tough.
What he was explaining in his little bio video was that it earned the respect of the people who are bullying him, the street credibility, and things like that.
There’s always been this weird thing with dance to where people love people who can dance but if you say that you’re going to learn to dance, you get made fun of, for guys a lot of times. If a guy can dance, they’re like, “That’s great,” but it’s the learning to dance is the lame part which is dumb.
I don’t know if that stigma still exists now.
It’s still there but probably less so because there are so many more accepted activities for kids to participate in than there used to be.
I definitely agree with that. Back to what you were saying.
I like Shanie because she’s a mama. She understands the working mom thing, was a single mom for a while and so was I, so I relate to that as well. Tommy is a kid from Boston. I love that because my husband is a New Englander and he’s a great trainer. I love the instructional videos that are through the Prospect Path and you’ll even see more and the Contender Path and the kickboxing too.
I feel they all explain things well and explain what they want you to do. I appreciate that level of instruction.
The main kickboxing coach is I believe Aaron Swenson and he’s a doll too. He explains things thoroughly and clearly. I am enjoying it as long as it continues to be fun and fitness. That’s my motto.
How about for the Peloton?
I love everybody. It’s hard to sometimes narrow it down, “Who do I want to take?” Sometimes I’ll roll a die and be like, “If it lands on two, I’ll do this instructor, three this instructor.” Some of my favorites are Matty Maggiacomo for the Tread and Jess Sims for the Tread and boot camps. For the Bike, I love Sam Yo. I’m into him. He’s adorable and so sweet. He’s got great music and I like his instructional cues.
I’ve only taken one class with him so far. It hadn’t worked out with my schedule. His voice throws me though because it doesn’t look like it should be coming out of his mouth. Do you ever have that experience? It’s not just the accent, it’s the tenor or how deep his voice is with the accent. He looks like he’s tough and his voice is relaxed. It’s gentle so it throws me off when he’s talking, not in bad way but it catches me off guard when he’s talking.
It’s funny because it’s true. You don’t expect that voice to come out of that body, but I’ve been enjoying him. I also love Cody. He’s one of my faves. I take classes a lot with Christine and JSS. I love her. I like Alex Toussaint. I don’t think I’ve ever had a bad instructor. I love all their personalities. Miss Ally Love is awesome. The whole crew, I enjoy each of them and sometimes it depends on the mood, “Do I want a fun and flirty ride? Let me take Cody.” “Do I want to work my butt off and have a hard ride? Let me take Olivia Amato.” She’s hard.
She does not stay on the cues long so it’s hard to follow the cues because they go so fast.
She’s too fast. She’s running everything. She’s like a little firecracker. It’s crazy, but it’s a lot of fun. I try to keep up. I don’t always but that’s okay.
What is your leaderboard name?
My leaderboard name is Joanie Jett. It’s my first name and it’s a homage to one of my heroes, who is Joan Jett, the musician.
The Jetsons. Yours makes more sense.
I never thought of it that way.
Is it the same on FightCamp?
No. It’s Joanie Young. Young is my last name. My Peloton name was Joanie Young for a long time, but I realized that was probably boring. I should pick something new and I haven’t changed it yet in FightCamp but I will soon to Joanie Jett.
You should be Joanie Jab.
Do you have any other go-to workouts that you’re adding in? Do you do the boot camps and the free weights? It sounds like you’ve got a wide variety.
I love the whole arena of fitness. Some moms cross stitch, scrapbook or love to cook. I love to punch a bag, sweat and get muddy so it’s a little different.
I hope your kids appreciate that.
They’re like, “Eh.” Since we’ve been home together, I have been getting them to do Peloton yoga with me. That’s been a lot of fun. They’re cute and goofy. We’ll have our leg in the air and my son will give foot high fives to everybody.
That’s more than ours are doing. They don’t move.
I tell them, “Come on, guys. You have to move a little bit.”If it’s not something you’re interested in doing every day, why keep paying for it? Click To Tweet
At least walk across the floor.
I was going to say I also got a Tonal. I’m excited about that. That’s definitely helping with my strength training. I’ve been adding that too.
You are loaded for bear.
I am and now I never have to join another gym because I have it all.
There’s not much else you need.
I’m totally satisfied. My husband always went to a gym down the street and he did his own thing. He would ride the Peloton Bike once in a while, but he was never into my home equipment and with COVID, he’s been using all the equipment so I’m like, “Welcome to Joanie Young’s gym for muscles. The first month’s payment is $39.99.” I’ve worked and saved my money. I’ve been teaching for years. I’ve paid for everything on my own. My husband and I separate our finances. We split the bills. We’re divorced and remarried. We’re not divorced from each other, but we’re a re-marriage. It’s like you and Crystal with a blended family. Everything I have purchased, I’ve done it by myself with my own money. I’m like, “You may use this. However, this is how much.” I’m kidding. I would never charge him.
It’s also interesting because you had all this stuff and he was still going to the gym.
He wanted to escape us a little bit and that’s okay. Everybody needs their hour a day of quiet. When my kids were younger in middle school age, when I was starting to put this home gym together, I would get interrupted, or even my dog would interrupt me. That’s probably the only downfall of having a home gym. He likes that away time for an hour. It’s not far. It’s a little $10-month type of gym and he gets a lot out of it. He was sad when it had to close down for the time being. He’s been keeping up great with his workouts at home too. I’m proud of that.
I get that if that’s been your ritual that you have to factor that into your life. You’re used to it and like it.
According to him, apparently my son and I talk a lot. He likes to be alone for an hour a day with his headphones in.
Do you have any advice for newbies?
For Peloton newbies, I would say try everything. Don’t jump into a program right away. Spend a few weeks getting to know your Bike, trying out all the different instructors, seeing what music motivates you if that’s something that you are into, the different types of classes, see what your goals are. If your goal is for a race or if it’s for fun and fitness, you might have different types of rides you might want to try. Try everything out. For FightCamp, I would say start with the Prospect Path because you learn the types of punches and the form that you should be using. Do each class a couple of times. Some of them are short, instructional videos, but you should have that type of training to be safe, not to strain anything or pull anything and to have a fun time with it.
Before we go, where can people find you on social media if you would like to be found?
We’re all embarrassing to our kids. Our kids are embarrassed by us and I’m cool. If someone is as cool as me is an embarrassment to their kid, what odds do regular folks have?
I don’t think they get it. Everybody thinks their parents are dorks when you get to a certain age. I was like, “I was cool once. You don’t understand.”
They grew up around us so they don’t see anything special or unique. They assume whatever soup they live in is normal.
That’s normal for them. It doesn’t matter who the parent is. It could be an astronaut or whatever. It’s like, “Dad’s gone for two weeks.” He’s in space.
Have you guys seen how Rob Lowe’s sons post him on Instagram? That is so funny. I love that.
For the kids, your parents are who have always been there. It’s the only world you know so you take them for granted. It’s human nature.
We think you’re cool, Joanie.
This was such an awesome opportunity for me. I was surprised, flattered and pleased.
You are a perfect fit. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this.
I’m honored. I waved to you guys at homecoming, but you were surrounded by people and I didn’t want to take up your time. I mouthed, “Thank you for your podcast,” because I love it. It’s the highlight of my week. I love listening to it.
You are so sweet. If we ever go back to homecoming, I’m assuming it will be on again. If you go, hopefully, we will see you.
Thank you again so much.
That brings this episode to a close. What pray tell do you have in store for people next episode?
We have a special treat. We have Kari Gormley. She had us on her podcast and then we had her. Her podcast is called The Flourishing Experiment. We were able to be on her podcast. She asked us to be on. We enjoyed talking to her so much. We were like, “Kari, come over here and talk to us on our podcast.”
We had a lot of fun. I wasn’t supposed to be on it. I accidentally ended up crashing it.
Tom crashed, it was my first podcast appearance without Tom, but he crashed.
She asked me, I didn’t crash. I came down to help you with something real quick. Then she was like, “Tom’s here.”
That is totally how it happened.
You have that to look forward to. Until then, where can people find you?
You can find me on Twitter, @RogerQBert or on Facebook at Facebook.com/TomOKeefe. You can find the show online at Facebook.com/TheClipOut. While you’re there, like the page, join the group. Wherever you get your podcast from, be sure and subscribe so you’ll never miss an episode. That’s it for this one. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep pedaling and running.
- Wall Street Journal – article
- How to Be an Antiracist
- White Fragility
- Rachel Cargle
- Bloomberg – article
- Investors Observer – article
- Atlantic – article
- CBS Sunday Morning – article
- Joanie Young – Facebook
- Tough Mudder
- Tommy Duquette
- FightCamp app
- @ToughMudderMom1 – Instagram
- Twitter – Crystal O’Keefe
- @ClipOutCrystal on Instagram
- @RogerQBert – Twitter
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