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John Mills joins us to talk about KeyBanc’s new target price for Peloton.
NordicTrack is suing Peloton.
The Wall Street Journal reviews the Bike+.
We discuss new shipping delays.
Peloton issues a pedal recall.
The new Field Testing programming is filling up fast.
Our next Zoom hangout is scheduled for 10/24/20.
Peloton’s new head of marketing Dara Treseder is interviewed on LinkedIn.
Hannah Corbin’s Barre moves are spotlighted on Yahoo.
Ally Love talks about a traumatic childhood moment with Women’s Health.
Celeb Sighting – Joe Rogan loves his Peloton.
Peloton adds a new instructor in Germany – Cliff Dwenger.
Past Guest Update – Susie Beris.
Steven Little has relaunched his Facebook group and started a Whoop program.
Part 3 of the Ministry Of Sound series is here.
The new fall collection has dropped in the boutique.
All this plus we interview Mark Nardone!
Watch the episode here:
Listen to the podcast here:
NordicTrack Sues Peloton plus we interview Mark Nardone
We should mention here, time is drawing near.
Today is the 21st, and by the time this airs, it’s going to be the 23rd.
You’re running out of time to try and win our fancy pink Peloton.
Don’t forget, it goes to a great cause. All of the proceeds over and above the cost of the bike, go straight to the National Breast Cancer Foundation. Also, it’s super pretty.
If you say so. I think it’s as cool as a pink bike can be.
I get that. Not everybody is into pink anyway. If you’re not into pink, you can always take the stickers off.
It’s not been damaged in any way. You can let it revert back to a regular Peloton if that’s what you want. If you’re like, “We’re reading this show, we’ve already got a Peloton,” you could give it to somebody. You could donate it to your school or maybe you could find a breast cancer survivor that is wanting a Peloton and be like a gift to you.
There are many wonderful deserving people out there.
You can also enter for as little as $5. It’s not a super expensive thing. The more you spend, the more chances you get. All the proceeds over and above the cost of the bike go to National Breast Cancer Foundation, which they do all sorts of wonderful things for people that are going through a tumultuous time in their life. If you would like to chip in, we’d love to have you. You can go to TheClipOut.com/pink.
If you’ve already donated and you’re like, “I get it, guys,” don’t forget to share it on your social media because the more people that see this, the better. There are a lot of people in our Peloton community that have no idea this is a thing. This is not something I can post out on the OPP or the other groups. That’s not cool. We have to use other ways and you guys are that way, so please share.
We should also say this is not affiliated with Peloton. What do you have in store for people this week?
We’re going to let everybody know about our upcoming Zoom call. We’ve got some fun stuff to talk to John Mills about. We also have some interesting things that are going on with Peloton Customer Service. Then there’s been Peloton in the news, which I know is shocking. There’s a Peloton celebrity sighting we have to discuss. There are some other general updates that are going to go on.
Before we get to all that, shameless plugs, don’t forget we’re available on Apple Podcasts where you can rate, review and subscribe, so you never miss an episode. Wherever you’re getting your podcasts from, you should subscribe so you never miss an episode. We have a new review. This is from Sirronka. They say, “Peloton Content Without the Drama. I got my bike in December 2017 and discovered this show around February of 2018. It immediately became part of my weekly routine, and one of the only podcasts that I listened to, as soon as it drops. I even went back to the beginning and listened to all the ones that I missed and loved seeing the story of Peloton develop through the podcast.” Then it says, “Crystal,” so I don’t know if that means they were about to say something more and they hit enter by accident, or if their name is also Crystal.
It is a mystery. Either way, it was a super nice review. Thank you very much. Since you’ve been listening since 2018, I don’t know if that’s a new review, if we’re that behind on reviews or if they still like us, they still listen to us. It’s a big mystery.
Things could have changed drastically. Also while we’re in shameless plugs, don’t forget that we have a Facebook page, Facebook.com/theclipout. While you’re there, like the page, join the group. It’s a great way to stay up to date on things throughout the week. Or if there’s a boutique drop, you can notify people in there. Maybe you’ll get a little bit of a head start on the masses.
I want to explain this really quick. Somebody took my knowledge of that earlier as like I get some special email from Peloton. No, Peloton does nothing like that for me. Let me make it very clear. I hear things. I want to pass that along to you and it is not some special mailing list I’m on. I’m not special in any way.
She’s just got her ear to the ground.
I just want to share it with you, guys. I want to be clear.
Finally, our YouTube channel, YouTube.com/theclipout, where you can watch this episode as well as listen to it. I guess you could watch it with the sound off, so you could watch it and not listen to it. I don’t know how much you’d get out of that.
I feel like that would be worse than boring.
I concur, but you could do it if you want. Anyway, there’s all of that. Let’s dig in, shall we?
Joining us once again for our new weekly feature, it’s John Mills from Run, Lift and Live. John, how’s it going?
I’m doing well, how’s it going?
We’re good. Another big Peloton week?
Yes, as always.
Is there any other kind?
Not anymore. Back in the day when we would talk about stuff and there wasn’t a whole lot, do you remember that?
Yeah, I remember that. We had to generate our own news. Back then, we could actually go places and go to the studio and stuff.
It will happen again.
We should start with this Seeking Alpha, Peloton rallies again as channel checks show ecosystem dominance. Somewhere around after the word “again,” I started to glaze over. Can you translate that for us, John?
Ultimately, this article is basically about the fact that KeyBanc had upped their price target to 160 on Peloton stock. That’s ultimately what they’re talking about rallying based on that change in price target. What I found more interesting though about this article is some of the stuff that they talk about lower in it.
Let’s dig in.
They start talking about the backlog on the bikes. They’re saying that the Peloton Bikes and Bike+ backlog is 5 to 10 weeks. Then they make a statement in here that’s more than the backlog for companies like LULU, SoulCycle and Echelon. I don’t know if that’s true. Their intent, I think, was to make the statement that the bikes are in high demand because there’s a larger backlog.
We’ve seen more and more complaints starting to pop up on social media channels of people upset that their Bike or Bike+ deliveries are getting delayed.
It seems to be COVID-related because literally, there will be a delivery signed up for tomorrow, then all of a sudden they get an email like, “Canceled,” now you’re back on the schedule for December. People are losing their minds over it. To be clear, I do not blame them. It’s frustrating. There are many people that sold their bikes already. They sold their Plus and they sold their Bike Minus, now they don’t have a Bike+.
It’s worse than not having a bike at all, having an Echelon. I saw somebody posted on The Clip Out group that they said that they had a Bike+ delivery date for November, and then XPO called them and was like, “We’re delivering your Tonal next week. Do you want us to bump up your Bike+ delivery to the same day?”
I missed that completely.
She was like, “Yes, please.” I guess if you want to get your Bike+ early, buy a Tonal. Right now, you can save $100 by using the promo code, The Clip Out. I thought that was fascinating.
I think that has more to do with XPO’s delivery system.
They don’t want to make two trips. I totally get it. That may also feel like there’s somebody that got an email that’s like, “You’re getting yours in November.”
There could be, but it goes with the customer service issue we were talking about. It’s out of nowhere that people are getting these really horrible emails, and I mean horrible and that it’s terrible news. They’re expecting Peloton to show up the next day and it’s like, “Just kidding. You will now be waiting weeks.”
I’m glad you got yours because I can’t even imagine what this house would be like right now. It would not be good. Back to this article, it does show you that every time they think this’ll be enough bikes, it’s not.
That’s the thing. Is this about demand or is this about COVID plus demand? We just talked about how there were 60 million bikes delivered in those containers or how many it was.
I posted an article where B of A was stating there was a four to eight-week backlog. Both of these firms suggest that they’re monitoring this, bi-weekly they’re checking. B of A was saying it’s 4 to 8 weeks. Now, KeyBanc is saying it’s 5 to 10 weeks. We’re in the busy season. The busy season started on October 1st. I don’t know, maybe it’s just because that’s what happens this time of year or it’s a combination of that and there’s new product and COVID. I think it’s a combination of all things.
I’m just worried about their NPR. I’m very worried about what that’s going to look like. I know that’s important to Foley to have it super high. It’s a wonderful thing for any company to have and to push for. That’s Net Promoter for anybody out there who doesn’t know what that is. I’m concerned that this is all going to be really bad. Peloton posted a tweet and it was just response after response, after response of negative, negative, negative. I’ve never seen that before. I’ve seen one or two.
We’ve got that history because we’ve seen what used to be posted on the groups or on the page. We’ve seen it evolve to now, we’re seeing things we didn’t see before and how they just build on themselves. One person says, “I’ve noticed that too. I think it’s growing pains. We knew there were logistics issue.” They said they were going to solve it with this new facility in December and with these new locations next year. Maybe there’s just pain until that happens, along with it being busy season and all the things we just talked about.
I think it’s a perfect storm. You’ve got to take the good with the bad. They might see some fluctuation in that score, but I also think long-term, it won’t be a problem because ultimately once you get your bike, you forget about that.
I don’t know, guys. I’m seeing people have their bikes redelivered four times. It’s not a onetime mess up. It’s like they have to get a new date four times, and this is not happening once. I have personally seen it or talk to people that this has happened to five times.
I agree with you for that reason. I can’t imagine there’s going to be no impact to it.
I still feel like once people get their bikes, it’s just a story and they move on. You were frustrated with waiting for your Tread, then once you got your Tread, you don’t think about that anymore.
That is true, but I feel like the difference here is that they’re being told something and then it changes. Then they’re told something and it changes again. For people who have never been a Peloton customer, they don’t have the goodwill. I was fine waiting for it. I knew that at the end of the day, as frustrated as I was, I knew that I would get a quality product and have a good experience. These people who’ve never dealt with Peloton, they don’t have that confidence. That’s why I’m worried.
I can see that. Moving along, there’s a new lawsuit to discuss.
This time, it’s against Peloton, not from Peloton.
It turns out that ICON has filed suit against Peloton, typically over the swivel monitor and the Bike+ and the auto follow of the resistance. Their products have like where it does auto-incline, decline, I guess it does the auto resistance. I didn’t know, there’s that piece.
I guess it’s because it goes up and down, it’s automatically putting the resistance on it.
That’s what the suit is all about. What’s interesting about this to me is they say in here they’re companies in the connected fitness space and have been built off of our innovative technologies, as if they’re like the core to all of this. In some respects, their products are a part of the route to this space. When you go back to the original suit from Peloton back in May against them, Peloton was like, “They’re using inappropriate sales tactics.” Literally on their site, they took the price of their bikes, increased it, put up red line through it and then put up the actual price, which was the existing price as if it was on sale, as a means to compete with Peloton.
Just as an aside, do they also own Kohl’s?
They might be affiliated.
It makes you think.
They were also suing them for the whole competitive nature of it. In their suit, they go, “If Peloton is saying before us, you either went to the gym to get a plethora of products and being able to compete against other people and have the comradery, or you work out at home and it was just boring. We brought those together into one.” NordicTrack doesn’t have all that. They’re just this ancient product space. It sounded aggressive the way that suit was worded. I see this as retaliatory in a way. It’s like, “We’re fighting back against you suing us, but also against how you’re wording this suit.” We have no innovation. We are the innovator.
I think that exact same wording was used by Peloton. Either towards ICON or towards Echelon, I can’t remember. There have been so many.
This is the legalese version of, “Nuh-uh.”
That’s exactly what it is.
I’m looking at both of the articles it’s like I’m watching a fight.
I think their play here is to just get everything to cancel out.
“You didn’t steal this from us. We stole this from you.” I just picture an attorney somewhere sitting around and going, “How do you say, ‘I’m rubber, you’re glue,’ in Latin?”
I thought it was hilarious reading. When Peloton filed, NordicTrack immediately changed that pricing structure. I took that as they were admitting to.
It was a tacit admission that they were doing that.
They immediately changed it. You went back to the side, that was gone. They knew that’s what they did.
Shortly after we recorded last week, it came out that Peloton was having to recall pedals.
This is so weird to me. This issue is three years old. Why now? I cannot wrap my head around why now? Why are we doing this? This is weird.
I was struggling with that too. We’re recalling pedals that date back to 2016. We remember the stories back then and they were horrific to me. I saw them and I’m like, “Wow, the injury.” It immediately came out, “You should be placing your pedals within this interval and we should get rid of those.” Four years later, I’m not sure why now.
They did that soft recall. It was a trade-in pedal program that if you had those pedals, you could ask for new ones and get them one time for free. I feel like this is related to something bigger, but I don’t know what.
I felt the same way, as if there was something legal about it. Something that caused it to have to be up a stated recall. That’s how I felt too but I couldn’t find anything that actually said that.
Maybe it’s one of those things like they know that there are X amount of pedals out there that haven’t been returned. If they don’t do a recall, then they’re held responsible forever. If they do the recall and they don’t get them, I feel like it’s a CYA thing.
I agree. I don’t understand entirely.
It’s like you’re supposed to keep certain documents for seven years if you’re a business. It has something to do like this. It’s like, “We’ve got to send this out, even though nobody cares.”
When I first bought the bike in 2016, I immediately took those pedals off and put on a completely different pedals, my own pedals.
A lot of people do.
I never did, but I never had any issues with mine at all.
Those panels broke a month or two ago. I’ve ended up, “I still have these pedals for Peloton. I should put them back on.” I forgot all about this.
Little did you know you were taking your life and you’re risking.
I was risking my life, but then I traded the Bike in for the Bike+.
We’ve had to consult our own attorneys because I ended every episode by saying, “Keep pedaling,” now I’m wondering, “Am I going to get sued?”
“Keep pedaling with the new pedals only.”
As if our episodes weren’t long enough, we’re going to add a disclaimer at the end. You spotted a Wall Street Journal article, which was a review of the new Bike+.
The author in the article is trying to rationalize why he would purchase the Bike or the Bike+, versus going to the gym, which is what he would standardly do. He starts out describing the price and suggesting that, “I don’t know, is it really worth it or not?” In the end, he comes to the conclusion that, “I guess it is worth it. If you have multiple people in your family that are using the bike, it’s cost effective. You’d save the cost of gas going into the gym and multiple people can use it.” That’s what he eventually comes to his conclusion. I was thinking from the very beginning, “With the gym, there would be an additional cost if you had a trainer.”
Then you’ve got to drive there and now you’ve got to fight for a spot. You could do it at home and you could do it anytime you want. Your time is worth something. The fact that you can do it at 2:00 in the morning if you want, that is also worth something.
You don’t have to worry about getting COVID in your own home.Getting physically healthy is only one piece of the puzzle. You got to take care of your whole self. Click To Tweet
That’s an added bonus this year 2020.
There’s a cost of getting COVID.
You pointed out that within this article was a little interesting tidbit, which is Peloton boasts 1 million connected fitness, subscribers about 300,000 more than NordicTrack. Is NordicTrack using some metric measurement? That seems awfully high.
I’m interested in whether or not that number truly equates to a true connected fitness subscriber or just a number. I don’t really know, but if he’s comparing apples to apples or not, he’s using numbers based on last earnings period with these 1 million connected fitness subscribers. I don’t know what that 700,000 is that he’s using for NordicTrack. In between January 2020 and March 2020, during that three-month period, Peloton gained 52,000 connected fitness subscribers. It was reported back then that NordicTrack gained 76,000 in that three-month period. They’re private, so I don’t really know if that number even reported then was truly connected fitness, meaning someone purchased a product and is paying the $39.99, or if it’s a member. If it’s truly connected fitness, they’re putting up numbers. I just don’t know if the numbers are accurate.
I don’t think they’re using the same metrics. I thought this is interesting that you pointed out to get an idea of the various companies’ Twitter followers. Peloton is at 107,000 Twitter followers. Nautilus AKA Bowflex is at 12,400 Twitter followers. ICON AKA NordicTrack is it 9,400 Twitter followers. Then Echelon has 750 Twitter followers. I have more Twitter followers than Echelon does.
What’s interesting about that though is that’s up like 300 from two months ago. I guess it almost doubled.
That’s one way to look. Their board meetings are like, “Our Twitter followers are up 400%.” That’s how they’re spending it.
When you’re starting with that small of a number, okay. I feel like this is a very fascinating comparison because you would suspect that people who own ICON are on Twitter as well. Why are their numbers so far below Peloton if they have many connected subscription people? I feel like that’s a great indicator that’s not accurate.
Another interesting metric would be to compare some of their instructors.
With that PB&J lady. That one lady that sang that Peanut Butter and Jelly song, that was embarrassing. I feel like she might have gotten popular because people were making fun of her.
They hate watching her.
That was bad. It was so forced.
It’s a running ad, so I still see it. Every time I see it, I think of you, Crystal.
That lady drives me crazy. It’s so forced. She’s embarrassed and she’s trying so hard to fight through it. I can feel her uncomfortable-ness through the screen.
Somebody in a meeting was like, “We need something viral. Create a viral thing.”
Somebody else stood there and said, “Bigger.” I didn’t know how to make peanut butter and jelly until I watched.
I don’t make it like that.
Because you bought Peloton early, you get to buy the fancy set where the peanut butter and the jelly are already in the same jar.
I don’t buy that normally jelly on a different jar.
If you ever needed a window on just how lazy Americans are, at some point we’re like, “Just put the peanut butter and the jelly in the same jar.”
Those little pockets, those uncrustables that the kids have, they have peanut butter and jelly in them, you just throw it out. We went down a peanut butter and jelly hole.
John’s like, “Look at the time.”
Erica walks in here while we’re talking and she’s like, “By the way, Peloton just announced their earnings on November 5th.”
That’s breaking news. Thanks, Erica.
We have a reporter on the ground, Erica Mills.
Mark your calendars, everybody, November 5th.
I guess that’s everything we had to talk to you about. Until next time, John, where can people find you?
Thank you so much.
Thank you. It’s good to see you, guys.
We mentioned in the coming up on the show stuff about a Zoom call, we have one coming up.
We do, it’s this Saturday, the 24th.
It’s the 24th at 6:00 PM Central.
For New Yorkers, 7:00 PM, for Pacific that will be 4:00 PM, Mountain time, 5:00 PM.
We like to hang out with people on Zoom sometimes. It’s no big deal. You can talk or you can not talk. It’s basically like a big, giant cocktail party, just lots of small talk and whatnot.
We do like to Peloton gossip, and then we go down rabbit holes. It’s all kinds of fun and no pressure. It’s like what Tom said, if you want to talk, great. If you don’t, that’s cool too.
We’ll post the information in The Clip Out group. Go to the group and join there if you haven’t. We’ll post the Zoom link and whatnot, and you can come and hang out with us. We talked about Peloton doing Field Testing.
Which is basically beta testing for their new features and things like that, for anybody who doesn’t know. I’ve had a lot of people who I don’t think listen to everything I say, which I know is shocking. Here’s the deal. It’s a testing program that’s overall. Think of it as an umbrella. Then they email out opportunities that are a much smaller thing. You could enroll in the program overall, then once you’re in the program, you can be chosen for specific opportunities that are testing specific things. The reason I wanted to explain that is because there was an email that came out. This is number two. This is our second one. Don’t worry, Peloton, if you’re reading, I’m not going to say what it was. I did want to point out that there was an email and apparently, it was filled up in 30 seconds. I filled it out super fast. I don’t know if I got in or not. I was able to apply, but I don’t know if I made it in. There were tons of people that never even got to the application because it was already full quickly. Then there was one that was a couple of weeks ago that was of a different scope, and that one appeared that it was open to a ton of people and that it was more of almost like a survey about certain things. It was open to a much larger group. I think we have a new boutique.
If you thought the boutique was bad, try and get into Field Testing program.
If you see that pop up in your email, you need to stop what you were doing and apply right then. I don’t care if you’re walking to the bus and you’re going to be late, you’re just going to have to do it or you’re going to miss out.
You should have been checking your email anyway. We wanted to tell people that it’s going to be super competitive to get into these Field Testing, so when you see them, you’ve got to be quick like a bunny.
For those of you out there that did click instantly, I know that. The other thing I wanted to add to that, and Tom, you talk about this all the time. Your mailing list at work is how many people?
It’s like 100,000.
It takes how long?
It takes 15 to 20 minutes to wind its way through the whole thing. It might take them hours.
When you are saying, “I got my email at 6:00 and it was already gone,” that’s because they started the email list hours ago and/or at least an hour ago. Other people have already gotten it. You can’t just look at it and be like, “It’s the second I got that email,” you have to think about when the emails started.
Think about changing your email address to something like Artwork319.
Don’t tell people that, they will really do it.
People would run out looking for the leaderboard, “Is there an Artwork319 really? Is that who he really is?” I have no idea how my list sends out. I don’t know how it selects and who gets it, if it’s alphabetical.
I hope it’s not. I hope that there is some randomness to it simply because the next conversation we’re going to be having is that everyone is complaining that the same people get this opportunity over and over again, and others do not. Lord help us all that it is randomized in some way.
LinkedIn of all places has an article. Apparently, they do news now of featured stories.
They actually have for a while. It just doesn’t matter to us most of the time. Whenever they go ahead and have Peloton’s Head of Marketing and the new head of marketing, then suddenly we care. Now it matters. This is all about Dara Treseder. She is brand new to Peloton. We talked about her a couple of months ago. It says here that she joined in August 2020. We talked about her then that this was one of the hires that Peloton had promised, “We’re going to be very specific and go make a point to be diverse and inclusive, and have people that are not only amazingly qualified, but also can be from all walks of life.” Dara is one of those wonderful hires. This is basically interviewing her, talking about what she’s all about. She looks like a Disney princess. They asked her to tell them about her marketing campaign that she’s most proud of. The recent one that came out for Peloton, that we all have our reasons that was all about the members of Peloton. Dara was behind that.
I had that idea three years ago. Does that mean I could have been the Head of Peloton marketing?
While we’re talking Peloton in the news, Hannah Corbin was featured in Yahoo Life.
It’s awesome because she has an entire workout. It’s six moves for a Barre workout that is targeting your butt and thighs. This is a great workout that Hannah put together and it’s awesome to see her get featured and be able to put that out there. Good for Hannah. This is really awesome. If you have not had a chance to try out one of the Peloton Barre workouts, this is another opportunity for you to do so because it is very similar to what you will see in the Barre content
Finally, in our Peloton in the News segment, Ally Love was featured in Women’s Health Magazine. She almost died in a car accident when she was nine.
Some of these instructors have crazy backstories. You’ve got Robin’s story where she almost died. Now all these years later, we’re hearing about Ally’s. It’s fascinating. It goes to show that all instructors, all people rather, have a story. You never know where it’s going to come from. Good for her for sharing it. That’s awesome.
We have what I think is a new Peloton celebrity sighting.
I think it might be.
I think his podcast is almost as popular as ours. We’re going to go ahead and we’ll give the guy a plug.
It’s longer than ours.
He does want a day like that. I don’t know how people keep up with that. That’s just a lot. Joe Rogan was talking on Episode 1549 where he interviewed Tom Papa.
It’s about when there’s 42 minutes left, that was the marker.
He talks about his love of Peloton. He’s a big fan and he’s super fitness guy.
I know nothing about it.
He’s also a UFC announcer. He’s really into UFC and he’s into fitness and working out and stuff. He’s very well-respected in the world of fitness and especially in like, for lack of a better word, the tough guy end of the world of fitness. For him to be like, “Peloton is a real thing and I enjoy it,” I think that says a lot. In the same way that Stern gave people some cover that might’ve been like, “A spin? I can’t do that. That’s for the girls.”
To be clear, Tom’s joking.
There are people out there that think that.
I know you are. Save the comments, guys.
I think that probably does carry a lot of weight for some people.
That’s awesome. It will be interesting to see if it comes up again on his podcast. If he comes back and talks about it or if it was a onetime thing. Sometimes, podcast hosts will intertwine some pieces of their personal life. I’m curious to see that.
My guess is it will because he absolutely does that. He’s got three hours a day to fill.
That’s a lot of content.
It looks like we’re going to have a new instructor soon.
There’s been a lot of speculation. There was proof that came out this week. I’m not going to get into what that proof was. It has emerged that Clifford is going to be the newest instructor in Germany. If you want to check him out, you can find him over on Instagram. His Instagram name is @Afrow_Cliff. This guy is super into strength. I can’t help but wonder if there’s going to be more strength coming from Germany potentially. Will he be doing some bootcamps?
Quick update on a past guest, Susie Beris.
You might remember Susie Beris. She is one of our many special guests. She is a firecracker of a lady and she has brain cancer. The reason I’m chuckling as I say that is not to laugh at her brain cancer, but to laugh at how she makes me laugh when I talk to her because she has such a positive outlook. She’s so pragmatic. That’s just the way it is. Her scans came back clear last year 2019. I remember asking her like, “Are you going to go do anything special to celebrate?” She was like, “I don’t like to travel.” I was like, “Do you have something on your bucket list?” She was like, “No,” but she says it so matter of fact, she’s happy in her life. She loves her life. She’s very involved in her local community. Anyway, this is an update on Susie. Due to what’s going on with the brain cancer, the drugs that she’s taking, I don’t know if it’s the drugs that she has to take for the medicine or if it’s simply having the treatment, having the cancer in general. It has affected her brain. She can’t run outside. There’s something about all the sensory that makes her trip. Sometimes, it’s even hard for her to even walk. The fascinating part is that she can run on the Tread. There’s something about the fact that it’s level. It’s a very even cadence. There’s no up and down, there are no rocks. There’s no anything.
There are less variables for her brain to process.
That’s what this article is all about that she ran a half marathon on her Tread in her home. Can you believe that she actually credits us with encouraging her to get the Tread? Susie, I feel pretty strong you would have gotten that Tread anyway. I love Susie’s outlook on life. I remember very clearly that she said to us that she has done a lot of research on cancer. She’s a physician as well. She said that high-intensity exercise specifically, they think that it does a lot of good for battling cancer. The whole time she was under treatment, she kept it up. She was totally killing it and literally killing the cancer. Let’s all cheer for Susie and her continued good health. I hope that everything continues to go well.
If you want to hear her whole interview, it’s Episode 75.
It’s been over 100 episodes ago. It feels like just yesterday we talked to Susie.You didn't get out of shape overnight, and you won't get in shape overnight. Click To Tweet
Quick update on a Steven Little.
He’s a past instructor, for those of you who are not aware, he has been gone for a while. The reason we chat about him is because, number one, he’s still in fitness and he comes back up on our radar. He was a very popular instructor when he left Peloton.
For the newer people, it was quite the scandal when he left. People were very upset.
You can see our episode with him when we originally talked about him leaving, which was the episode titled, my favorite title that Tom has ever done, Steven Little Chucks Peloton in the F**k It Bucket. Then we also interviewed him a couple of months ago. He’s now working on a new venture and he’s going to come on in a couple of weeks and spend a few minutes with us and chat about that. If you are interested in working with him, you can join the Whoop group, Heart Rate Tribe or HR Tribe, and there seems to be some personal training of some kind. I don’t know much about it yet, but it’s interesting.
It’s out there if you’re interested.
Part three of the Ministry of Sound series is here.
Another Ben Alldis team up. I feel like he loves Ministry of Sound. I’ve heard him talk about that, but all instructors have their thing. This one is a special one. It’s a chill out ride. It’s more on the low five beats side of things. It’s going to close out the series, think of it as a trilogy. This is the last one in the trilogy. It’s going to be a great ride. It’s twenty minutes and I believe it took place today. If you haven’t gotten a chance to check them out, please do. That’s with Ben Alldis. It was a twenty-minute climb ride. That took place on October 21st, so you can check that out.
Finally, a new fall line hit the boutique. We’re talking about it, is it still there?
That’s the thing I did want to talk about. I don’t know if it’s still here today, but throughout the day when it dropped on Saturday, it was. First of all, I want to point out that it dropped on a Saturday. For all of you people out there, men and women who say, “When do they usually drop?” This is why I don’t like to answer that question because the last several have dropped on a Thursday between 9:00 and 10:00 AM Central time. This one dropped on a Saturday at 11:00 AM. You’ll never know. Things that you can do to be on the look out, check the Instagrams. Jess Sims, in particular, often posts. If she’s posting and she says, “It’s new and it’s coming soon,” you can be sure that you’re going to see that in the next 24 to 48 hours. That’s been her thing. Since it’s the fall too, it had a lot of different items in it. There was something for everybody. They did a good job of hitting them in the women. I saw that there were still a ton of items left at the end of the day, which goes to my theory that once things start to calm down and they get an idea, they’re able to better order everything, then the numbers will reflect that. I’m sure everything is still sold out, but it’s sold out slower than it had been.
Joining us is Mark Nardone. Mark, how is it going?
I’m good. How are you?
I always love the weekend.
You have them now. My job is concert promotion, which means I never had weekends because you try to do your concerts on the weekends, but since concerts are no longer a thing, it’s weekends.
COVID has changed everything. It’s a completely different world.
I am curious how you originally found Peloton.
It was a long strange journey that got me to pick Peloton. It was a case of I needed to get back in shape. I had an ankle surgery that reconstructed my left ankle for the second time. It couldn’t handle impact in any kind of way, so running was out. I was like, “I need a low impact activity to get myself back in shape.” I went off and started researching exercise bikes and of course, up comes Peloton. I was like, “What is this?” I started checking into it and was comparing against other magnetic resistance bikes and a lot of those reviews said it’s a well-constructed bike. I saw the exercise program and I was like, “I don’t know if I’m going to do this. I’ve never done a spin class in my life.” Most of my sports activities tend to be individual rather than me being in the class with people telling me what to do. I’m telling everybody else what to do, but I figured, “I’ve got to do something with me. Let’s give it a shot.” I did the free trial part. I went through the content for a week. I was like, “I’ll pull the trigger on this.” That was it. January 2019 was when the bike arrived.
You’re coming up on your anniversary.
Did anything dramatic happen to your ankle? What caused that you need to work out twice?
I originally had this ankle reconstructed in 2001 and years of abuse, I had shredded a bunch of tendons and ligaments. I got it reconstructed and I handled it well. I got a solid fifteen years other than reconstruction, but I hit my 40s in good shape. Within my 40s, I was healthy, I was fit and then life happens, a pound creeps on and another pound creeps on, changes at work, tons of stress, more weight. It got to the point where I chunked on quite a bit of weight and I was like, “This has been a stressful year.” I spent a year in an interim role.
I was working 70 hours a week. The gym had gone out the window. I don’t think I went to the gym in a year. The weight had packed on and I was like, “This is it. It’s time to get back into shape.” I go out and run, and my ankle go. I strapped it up and gave it a couple of weeks and then it goes again. In the span of five weeks, I rolled the ankle five times. I go to the point that I stepped on a crack in the pavement and fell flat my face.
I went to the orthopedic and they said, “You have no lateral ligaments left in your ankle. They’re all gone.” Reconstruction time number two, that was September 2018. It’s a pretty extensive reconstruction. I got a nice piece of Kevlar to replace one of the ligaments and the rest were all reconstructed. Then six weeks non-weight bearing which is tough. Here’s the kicker, I get cleared, I can start walking on the ankle. I get my crutches and off I go to work and spend a day at work crutching around in meetings. I’m going to say, “I don’t feel good. I’m going to go home.”
I go home and my ribs are hurting. I’m like, “Mark, you’re that out of shape. You strained your ribs walking around on crutches.” I took a couple of Advil and went to bed, tossed and turned, and then woke up at 4:00 in the morning and I couldn’t breathe. The pain was intense. I shook my wife awake and I was like, “We’ve got to go to the hospital.” We went to the hospital. I checked into the ER and ten minutes later, I’m in respiratory arrest with twenty blood clots in my right lung. That was a little bit of a wake-up call.
Was that related to the ankle injury?
After the surgery, because I had not been using the leg, I had developed a DVT. I had a clot in my calf and as soon as I started walking around, the clot shifted and then fractured. It’s called a PE shower, Pulmonary Embolism shower. The clot fragmented and it all ended up in my right lung. The doctor was like, “Ten minutes later, you would not have a tomorrow.”
That could have killed you.
The doctor said, “If you had shown up to the hospital ten minutes later, if this had happened and you had not been sitting in an ER bed.” That was a shock. I’ll talk a little more about that because that comes back again. That was the wake-up call. It’s like, “You’ve got to get yourself back in shape.” I got the Peloton in January 2019. I set my goals and I was 181 pounds at that point. I’m 5’8”. That weight was pretty chunky for me. I had gotten permanent acid reflux and a whole bunch of other stuff that was going on. I was like, “One hundred fifty-five by my birthday in May. That’s the goal.”
By March, I had Power Zone training and that hooked me completely. I have a slightly obsessive personality when it comes to things. If you give me stats and numbers, I’m a happy camper. The weight kept on kicking off. I hit my 155 goal by April. That was me and then my wife’s like, “We should go to New York for your birthday and we’ll go right in the studio.” I’m like, “That’s an awesome idea.” It turns out my birthday weekend is Homecoming Weekend.
Were you able to go into the studio? That’s a busy weekend.
I got in. We got a 6:00 AM class with Matt. I spent a whole weekend with a bunch of people that obsessed about Peloton just as much as I do. I was super happy.
That is probably one of my favorite weekends of the year.
We could all get together.
Being able to do it over your birthday, what a treat. Especially not planning for it, you are falling into it. You had no idea what you were getting into.
I had no idea what Homecoming was. We went to boot classes and they were like, “What’s this Homecoming thing? Let’s sign up for that.” I spent three hours in my office one day to click and refresh. We got tickets and we got in and it was fun. It was amazing to meet such an eclectic bunch of people that all culminate around this strange bike that goes nowhere.
I love going to Homecoming. It feels like you meet your people because everyone is as excited to talk about the topic that you’re excited to talk about. It bonds you. I’ve never had a subject in my life that instantly bonded me to that many people the way Peloton was.
It’s such a varied range of people and backgrounds. Everybody’s got an amazing story. I’m always completely humbled to hear people’s backstories and the stuff that they’ve overcome. It’s an amazing community. It helped on the journey. That’s for sure.
When it came to you like, “This is it. I’m going to lose weight. I’m going to hit my goal.” Did you make a ton of changes? Did you make one change gradually? Obviously, you added exercise back in but was that enough for you?
I’m an all-in kind of guy. When I decide to do something, I do it and to the best of my ability. When I got the bike, I was like, “First thing, fix the diet.” I looked at what I was eating and how I was eating. I was like, “This has to change,” because what I was doing is, I’d get up in the morning, grab a cup of coffee as I rush out the door. I can go to work throughout the day. At 3:00 and I was like, “Lunch, I forgot.” I’d be there at 6:00 or 7:00 at night. I’d go home. I would eat probably nothing great and sit on the couch. That was my habit.
I turned that paradigm on its head and was like, “You get up in the morning and the bulk of your calories are going to be first thing in the morning.” Then a barely decent healthy lunch and something light when I get home at night. I fast from 6:00 through the next morning at 8:00. The rest was the exercise piece. Consistently, between 1 pound and 2 pounds a week that I was chopping off and it was easy. I wasn’t feeling like I was hungry. There were times that I was eating more calories than I used to. Better quality of calories instead of grabbing something from a vending machine because you’re hungry.
What’s a typical breakfast for you since that’s when you’re eating most of your calories?
Certainly, protein. Usually, eggs or some meat like Canadian bacon or ham. I’m usually eating roughly about 750 to 800 calories in the morning and then lunch can be anything healthy. Most people, when you lose weight, especially when you’re going through that initial phase, you’re losing both the fat and the lean tissue, you’ve got to balance your protein calories, especially if you’re going to be exercising because you don’t want to lose too much of the lean. I did that and most people. My final bottom out was at 138, which is what I’m hovering around. At 138, I have lost a lot of lean tissues. The last year of weight maintenance has been regaining that lean tissue back and getting stronger.
Adding in some resistance training. I bought a road bike back in 2019 because after I figured like, “Why am I thinking of it going indoors to ride on a nice sunny day by a road bike?” Mr. Obsessive because I get a good road bike and trains hard, I’d started riding outdoors. I did my first century ride in September of 2019 and then got two more centuries before the end of the year. The good thing was physically I was healthy. I got myself back to health within eight months. Remember that whole almost dying thing? I didn’t pay enough attention to that because apparently when you almost die, it does a number on you mentally. If you don’t deal with it, it kicks the crap out of you. While I was physically healthy, I was finding that I wasn’t quite where I should be mentally. I hadn’t processed it. I started going through a lot of stuff in my head that I hadn’t count.
A week later after I got out of the hospital, I was back in the office. The doctor was like, “You almost died.” I was like, “I’m okay now.” He was like, “You’re going to have to be on blood thinners for three months and you’ve got to be careful because we don’t know if it did any damage to your heart or your lungs.” I was like, “I feel fine,” and off I went. That’s something that I want to make sure people understand. Getting physically healthy is only one piece of the puzzle. You’ve got to take care of your whole self. Especially in the days of COVID, there’s a lot of stuff in it. If you ignore it and you try to stop it down, it comes back and then beat you up in the middle of the night or times that you don’t expect it. For me, it would manifest. It was these waves of emotion that I would be having out of the blue. I’d be talking about something, and all of a sudden, I’m on the verge of sobbing. It was such a strange thing because I’m a fixer. I’m always the guy that’s when everybody else is losing their mind, I’m like, “No. This is what we’ve got to do. We’ve got to go here.” All of a sudden, I wasn’t that guy. That was a lot to deal with.
What made you come to that realization that you realized that something had shifted inside of you and then also linked it back to, “It must have been this?”
It’s one of those things that you have to say on the quiet time, “What is going on?” It was a friend of mine, “You need to talk to somebody about this.” I took the advice, I got somebody and started to talk this through. Within the first hour of talking to somebody that knows their stuff, they’re like, “You have PTSD.” I was like, “That’s what it’s been. I know I’m fixed.” She’s like, “No. You don’t understand. Not that you had, you have PTSD, you almost died. You’re going to have to deal with emotions that’s brought up or it’s never going to go away and you’re never going to be healthy.” It took probably a couple of months of going back and talking these things through and understanding what does that means for you? What is the impact? How do you process the fact that, “I’ve always been fit. I’ve always been healthy. I’ve always been in control of my life, and all of a sudden, I wasn’t anymore?” I was on death’s door and there was nothing I could have done.
Were you conscious of pushing that down or were you moving through fast that you reacted without thinking about the fact that you’re putting this on the back burner?
It was a bit of both. It was pretty much my nature and maybe it’s a cultural thing. I’m Scottish. It’s like, “These emotional things, get them out the window.” Other times, being a guy, Tom, you can attest to this. As guys, you are not supposed to have emotions that are out of the band. The typical guy reaction, I’m like, “Ignore it.” You can’t because the more you do, the worse it gets for you. Fitness is a holistic journey. You can’t take one aspect of it and ignore other things. I’ve spoken to people. The good thing is talking about it is what helps. I truly can address that head-on and be like, “It’s okay not to be okay,” and I wasn’t okay. It was affecting all aspects of my life. It was making me short-tempered. I’m usually an easygoing guy. It takes a lot for me normally to lose my temper and suddenly, I was like, “Hair-trigger is going off.”
When you go through something like that, do you feel that you reach a point where that’s behind you or do you feel like it’s a constant maintenance that needs to take place?
It’s certainly something you can never ignore. It gets better over time. A year ago or so when I was dealing with it, I could talk a bit without getting this charge of emotion coming through my body. I’m like, “What is going on? I’m normally in control of everything.” The more you talk it through and the more you understand what those feelings are and be like, “It’s okay to not be okay.” When the emotions come, face them head-on and be like, “I see you and I know what’s going on. It’s not bad.” Eventually over time, you’ll learn the skills to deal with it.
I have to say that I’m impressed that you’re comfortable talking about that. My dad had a heart attack several years ago, which I know is a completely different situation than you dealt with. I know it was very scary for him. He was in denial that he had a heart attack up until they made him put the stent in. He kept trying to say nothing was wrong with him. He has struggled with coming back to himself and we have often talked about, I wish that he could talk to somebody about this. I wish that he would deal with this because he hasn’t ever been the same. I’m okay talking about it on the show because he never reads.
He comes from the generation of you don’t talk to somebody, you don’t deal with those things. You’re supposed to be okay. If you’re alive, you’re fine and that’s it. It’s awesome that you’re willing to talk about that and be vulnerable. I know we talk about some things on the show that it’s hard to put out there because people know you in a different way after you put that information out there. I’m trying to say, I appreciate that you’re being open and honest. I’m glad that you got the help that you needed. That’s fantastic and what a great message to send out to other people. In this time of COVID with everything going on, the world is insane. There’s so much for people to be upset about. I’m amazed that you did that. Thank you for sharing that.
Talking about it helps. As much as you appreciate me talking about it and that helps other people, that helps me too. This is an ongoing thing. It never goes away. When I spoke to my counselor, she said that it’s a very natural reaction because nobody wants to admit that they’re mortal. Mortality is a thing that we tend to avoid. I pretty much thought I was immortal for most of my life. The number of risks that I’ve taken which is fine, but eventually, especially towards the end of your life, you start to confront your mortality. It helps to have flashed it through. I know a whole bunch of people that have gone through things similar to mine where death touched them on the shoulders like, “Pay attention.” It changes you. It changes how you think and how you see the world. It makes you appreciate people a little more and appreciate what you have a little more. I’ve always appreciated my health through my whole life of being healthy and fit.
I know that I’m back to being as healthy and as fit. I’m probably in a good cardio shape now than I was in my early 30s when I was in good shape and coming on 53 or 54 and smoke people half my age on the hills. You’ve got to come to it in your own time. It took me a while to get to the point where I’m like, “I’m not okay,” because up until then, you were in that denial phase of like, “No. You’re being stupid.” It takes a leap of faith and it takes people around you to support and you saying, “It’s okay.”
How has the Peloton community helped you through all this? Have you had any special Peloton groups?
I’m on Power Zone Pack, because I’m a Power Zone freak and then the Road Riders group, which is another phenomenal group which is Joe Costa. I told him a little bit about this story. We were on a ride together. It was weird because these are people that I’ve communicated with for the best part of a year and a half through Facebook, but I had never met any of them. We went on the self-guided and there was a whole bunch of people from this group. That shared passion. I’m always looking through the Facebook group and I see people that put their stories out there.
Stuff that humbles me that makes what I went through like nothing. People with double hip replacements and they’re on the bike a week later. They’re on their bike and they’ve got their chemo bag hooked up to them as they’re paddling. They are amazing people that keep going and they’re supportive, that’s the other thing. Especially, when we’re such a divided nation when it comes to everybody’s opinions on everything, and yet I read these posts in these forums and people are like, “Hands on your back,” and supportive no matter what. It’s a phenomenal community.
There have been many times that I have thought to myself, “All these people struggling with many things can get on their bike and continue to work out. What’s my excuse?” It makes me grateful for my health and for my ability to be able to exercise that Peloton in general with the community has changed my viewpoint on everything in the world. I’m curious for the PTSD, did the person that you worked with use that EMDR? Did you find that to be helpful? I’ve heard a lot about it and people have spoken very highly. I’m curious what your thoughts were on that.
It is a useful technique. We used it towards the end of my sessions. For me, putting a name to it was a big breakthrough. When she articulated through it and I was like, “How could I not have seen this?” That was the first thing because you have a name for the monster under the bed and it’s a way to say, “I know who you are and you’re not going to be the boss of me anymore.” Those were the types of things that will help.
I do understand that because I feel like it’s fascinating. You’re clearly a very intelligent, rational human being. If you were having a conversation with somebody else where they were struggling, I’m sure you would be like, “This isn’t normal for you. You need to get help.” When it’s yourself, it is hard to see that. Your mind does all these crazy gymnastics and lies to you.
You are always your biggest blind spot.Do what you can when you can and realize that you're going to have good days and bad days. Click To Tweet
Emotions are like the weather, you’re like, “That’s what it is today. What am I going to do about it?” You don’t think that you can do something about it.
With mental wellness, I find that entire subject fascinating. There are always new ways to look at it and new breakthroughs for it.
If there’s anything that COVID I hope does for us is bring focus on the fact that there is more to health than just your fitness. Most people, I’m managing my team remotely. Our standup meetings in the morning, the first 5 or 10 minutes are pretty much, “How are you doing? What’s going on?” Making them feel comfortable that it’s saying like, “I’m having a crappy day or I had a crappy day yesterday,” and be like, “That’s fine.” There’s always going to be work to get done, then you always have deadlines. The reality is with everybody being distant and you’re not in the same room, you don’t have that same person-to-person contact, you have to be even more cognizant now of people going through stuff.
It’s okay to trust that they can be honest with you and then trust that you won’t overreact. If they’re saying, “I’m having a bad day. I’m not going to get my deadlines.” Understanding that, being okay with it and having that trust is even more important now because we’re so far apart physically, we’re all at least 6 feet apart. You can have distance emotionally from people in this world either. It’s important to reach out and say, “How are you doing?”
I wish we had more of that. At my job, nobody asks. We pretend that everything is fine.
We do the Zoom calls sometimes on the weekend for The Clip Out group. We started doing that because of COVID. Many people aren’t able to talk to people or maybe they live by themselves and they don’t get the human interaction that they’re used to and we were like, “Let’s hang out for a little bit.”
It always feels me full of joy hearing where people are and talking. I always feel better after those. They’re awesome. That’s a good way to do it. I’m glad you were able to get out on a long ride when you went out with Joe Costa and the gang. That’s awesome.
That’s a lot of fun and I ate a lot of food. It’s probably the first ride I can remember where I’ve eaten more calories than I burn.
Back to Peloton, do you have any advice for people who are now getting their bikes?
I always tell people, “You didn’t get out of shape overnight and you won’t get in shape overnight.”
I say the variation on that to people all the time when they’re talking about trying to lose weight. I say that as someone who has been up and down with weight. I say it to myself, “I didn’t get fat in a week. I’m not going to get unfat in a week.”
Do what you can when you can and realize that you’re going to have good days and bad days. Here’s a classic example. I get on the bike and it was a bad day. I got on and I don’t know whether it was because I had coffee before I get on or I didn’t sleep, but I tanked. It’s the worst ride I’ve had in a while, but I was like, “It’s a 60-minute ride to do. Do I quit now or do I keep going? Keep going.” I didn’t ride my Zones the way that I should have done, but I did 60 minutes. That’s okay because I’ve bookmarked that sucker and I will be back to kick it back when I’m feeling better.
It’s great that you say that because many times life is like gambling. People only talk about the wins. It’s nice to be like, “I love Peloton. I took a ride today and I messed the bed,” but it’s okay.
It’s refreshing to hear you say that. I’m terrible about it. I beat myself up. If it’s not where I want to be, you didn’t have to nod hard.
This is probably some of my backgrounds. We haven’t talked about this, but my screen name is Kru_Mark. It comes from the fact that I’ve gone martial arts for 30 plus years. Kru is the Thai word for teacher. I have been teaching students for twenty plus years and I have had fighters that have fought in world championships. There are a couple of guys that I’ve trained that were in the UFC and my number one thing that I tell them, “A loss is only a loss if you don’t learn anything from it. Some things you can learn more from losing a fight or failing at something than you can from going out and having an easy win.” I have guys that have gone out and they knocked a fighter out in the first round.
They’re like, “Great.” I’m like, “You can do that, but when it happens to you the other way, are you going to be as excited? There’s as much for you to learn from that happening to you than you doing it the other way.” I fought in Europe for a bit and lost a couple of fights. This was a lesson that I was taught. The fights that were easy for me, I didn’t learn anything. I was like, “I can hit hard,” but the fights that went the distance, and maybe I lost by a couple of points, they are the ones that teach you the most. They teach you that when your heart and things are not going well, you can still keep going.
By keeping going, you’re learning more and doing more for yourself than just going out and getting that quick KO. It’s the same with riding. The rides that you have where you go out and you crush it and you’re like, “Great, awesome.” The rides where you’re halfway up the hill and your legs are screaming and you’re like, “Am I going to quit right now? No, I’ll find a way to get to the top.” That’s the stuff that helps me out. Matt says, “When you get to the tough stuff, that’s the stuff that changes you.” Keep going through those things, that’s the stuff that brings your fitness and your mental game up to the next level.
You thought that this would be nothing to share with other people, and yet you’ve brought so much to share with other people. You’ve been an absolute pleasure to talk to. Thank you.
Since you already told everybody your leaderboard name, before we go, where can people find you on social media if you would like to be found?
You can find me on Instagram, @Kru_Mark_N, and you usually find Peloton stuff or something with the martial arts stuff will be out there too. We’re always looking for people that want to chime in. You’ll find me on the Road Riders group, One Peloton Power Zone Pack. Look over in there quite a bit. Hopefully, you chime in on useful pieces of advice and read people’s stories. I’m always amazed when people share their stories.
Thank you for taking time out of your day to join us. We appreciate it.
It’s awesome that you are doing this and I’m looking forward to seeing what stories you bring next times around.
We’ll keep putting them out including yours. Thank you for being willing to do this. I know you’re a little shy about it. I’m glad that you did. You had a lot of wonderful things to share.
You have a great rest of your day.
We’ll talk to you later.
That brings this one to an end. What pray tell do you have in store for people next time?
Last week, I told everybody it was going to be Stephanie Ward this week, and next week it really is going to be Stephanie Ward.
Is this going to be like the Jimmy Kimmel show where Matt Damon is always the next guest?
No, it really is true. I had it labeled wrong and I made a mistake.
People expect this sort of stuff from me. Until next time, where can people find you?
You can find me on Twitter, @RogerQBert or on Facebook at Facebook.com/TomOKeefe. You can find the show online at Facebook.com/TheClipOut. While you’re there, like the page, join the group. Wherever you’re getting your podcasts from, be sure and subscribe. Also don’t forget, we’ve got a YouTube channel. You can subscribe to that as well at YouTube.com/theclipout. That’s it for this one. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, keep pedaling and running, assuming your pedals have not been recalled
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